Speaker Series: Full Episode Page

• Dan Seigel- Brainstorm or The Whole-Brain Child 
• Lisa Feldman Barrett- How Emotions are Made
• Marc Brackett- Permission to Feel 
• Marshall Rosenberg- Nonviolent Communication
• MBSR Online
• Wim Hof Breathing Technique
• Mayim Bailik’s Breakdown with Andrew Huberman 
• Headspace 
• Calm

Brenda 0:02
Hello, welcome back for another episode of Sky’s the Limit Fund Speaker Series. I am Brenda Zane, I’m the lucky Sky’s the Limit Fund board member who gets to host these conversations and have really interesting discussions with really interesting people. So welcome back to another really what’s going to be a really great conversation. And just really quickly, if you don’t know about Sky’s the Limit Fund who we are. We’re an organization, a nonprofit organization that helps families fund wilderness therapy. Wilderness Therapy is an incredibly, incredibly powerful and effective form of therapy for kids who need an out of placement home, out of home placement. However, it’s also very expensive. And so we work to help families afford wilderness therapy for their kids when they’re in crisis. And then also surround those families with support and services, while they’re young person is in treatment, and then when they come home to make that transition home, which is often a very tricky time. So we really wrap families in that support from leaving to wilderness to then coming home and then making that transition. So that’s what we do. And today, we have the great fortune of speaking with Lindsey Myrick from blueFire Wilderness in Idaho. And we are going to be talking about a topic that I am very passionate about, which is mindfulness and really having a little bit more control over our emotions, and our reactions and really responding versus reacting. When things get tricky with our kids, which we know they do. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. I love the topic that that Lindsay sent us, You Don’t Have to be Calm All the Time. So that’s going to be a great conversation. So welcome, Lindsay.

Lindsay 1:57
Hi

Brenda 1:58
Hi, I think people are gonna be excited to see they’re gonna say, Oh, I don’t have to be calm all the time. But how do I do this?

Lindsay 2:06
Yes, yes, I don’t I think whenever I started to talk to Nina, when we were talking about what would you like, talk with parents about if there was one thing and I was like this, because I feel like parents have feel so much pressure. It’s like, once they start trying to do something differently, or trying to have a different intervention with their kid or parents in a different way. It’s like, oh, I have to be in this little box. And I have to like, I can’t feel anything and I can’t get anxious or pissed off or any of these things. And I’m like, that’s no, like, please don’t like that’s so terrible for you. At the end of the day for your kid to because they have a lot of feelings. Like they can’t be called all the time, you know?

Brenda 2:46
Yes, yes. Well, let’s, let’s dive into that. But first, why don’t you just give us a little bit of background on yourself and how you came to be working in wilderness therapy. I’m always I love hearing these stories, because it’s not I think that the typical thing that you hear, so I love hearing how people ended up in wilderness.

Lindsay 3:03
Yeah, yeah. Well, I’ll start off with the like, now, you know, I’m the Assistant Clinical Director and a primary therapist at blueFire wilderness in Idaho. And as far as like my clinical practice, I focus a lot on kind of trauma attachment. And then he’s like, kind of mixed with that. Some family system stuff, and usually like some cognitive differences, whether that’s like neurodiversity, like, you know, ADHD, like spectrum processing, speed gaps, nonverbal learning disorder, that kind of thing all kind of mixed in together. So I kind of like, like, that we’re constantly solving a Rubik’s Cube and trying to hit multiple targets as wants, and then how I got to wilderness? That’s a great question. It could be a long stumbling story. So just like, you know, 20 different young adults, existential crises, you know, but my undergrad degrees are actually in Economics and International Studies. And I thought I was gonna get a PhD in economics and like, save the world, you know. And then I did an internship in Ireland for this nonprofit, and there, we got to do some environmental education. And there were just a few times where, like, some of the kids would just light up about something, you know, there’s like this moment where people like, kind of truly engaged like, we show up and we’re like, fully there and we’re curious and like, and I got to see that and I was also like, feeling like, oh, this legislative stuff and everything isn’t really for me. And, like, you know, as people we can have a whole lot of evidence and data for something that should we should do, you know, and we won’t change our behavior at all. And so I was kind of like realizing that and then from there, I was like, Okay, well, I want to do that I want to like help people have that spark. And then I kind of stumbled into guided rock climbing, backpacking, and canoeing all of that for my undergrad Outdoor Program, and then heard about wilderness therapy through that. And it was actually my first job out of undergrad was being a wilderness therapy instructor and moved up to Vermont, and from Texas. So any of you, that’s a move. Yeah, any of you that have kids who are in a winter environment now that are from like, the South, I very much empathize with you. And like all the questions were like, but really, how are they going to stay alive? Like? I promise they will. And it’s okay. And actually fun. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I haven’t looked.

Brenda 5:58
So that’s amazing. That’s really great. Yeah, I often tell this is just a side tangent. But I often tell parents who are worried about sending their kids to wilderness in the winter. That’s what I did with my son. And he wore it as a badge when he got to residential treatment. And when he talks about it, he’s like, Yeah, dude, but you didn’t go in February, like I did. So it can become a really good thing, because it’s something that they can be really proud of that they did wilderness in the winter. So anyway, that was a tangent. But let’s talk about this idea of our emotions, and really responding instead of reacting, I know that there’s something called the window of tolerance, and I would love to have you share what that is.

Lindsay 6:46
So like, when we think about, like, our experiences, like all of the things that go on for us at any point in the day, like, we have our window of tolerance with you imagine like, kind of, for those of you who can’t see me on video, two parallel lines, like almost like an equal sign, and then like rolling wave in between those two parallel lines, that’s kind of our window of tolerance, and the wave is rolling. Because the way our nervous system works in our body functions is that we, we don’t just stay steady baseline, but it doesn’t exist, right, we need to in order to be motivated, get up move, like, have some like nervous system charge, right. And so our nervous system will get activated. Like, you can kind of think about this in your day, like, you wake up in the morning, and you’re still kind of groggy and tired. And you may be having these grumbling thoughts of like, oh my gosh, like, I have to, like, do this thing today at work, or like, oh my gosh, like, there’s the like, play at school, because it’s the holidays, you know, and like, we’re gonna have to wrangle like all the kids into the car, and like, where’s that boot at and you’re kind of getting out of bed at this point, you know, and, and then your nervous system is starting to switch from its like, kind of down rest state into a more up state. So you’re kind of feeling a little bit more energy, you’re getting some light in your eyes, like, Okay, you’re finding the different things you’re moving, getting breakfast, everybody’s kind of out the door at this point, and you’re sitting in the car. And like, you can feel your energy start to come down just a little bit. And you’re like kind of breathing out your heart rate slows, like, you’re maybe a little bit more contemplative. And that’s, that’s actually important, right, then that kind of rest. That state is where our body can digest, heal, recharge, integrate memories. And so both states, the Upstate and the downstate are important, and we’re constantly moving through them throughout the day. And even in our breath, like you can think about like your breath, like there’s when you breathe in, if you take like a sharp breath in, there’s a little bit of nervous system activation the air as far as like up, and then if you breathe out, there’s that kind of like, you can feel your body relaxed. So every moment of the day, right, like our nervous system is going up and down. And then events are happening all day. So like maybe at 1.1 of the kids starts arguing with the other one. So you get even more of like a little bit of a charge, then your nervous system would regularly do because you’re like, Oh, what are we going to do about this? What are they fighting about? You know, like, and are we gonna make it on time? Oh, now we’re already late, you know, when you start having all these thoughts, and the idea is not that like you do not have those thoughts or feelings. Those are normal reactions to something stressful happening. You know, if your body didn’t energize itself to say, hey, something’s going on, then I might need to respond and pay attention to increase my focus. Like, open up my senses a little bit more all of that, then you wouldn’t be able to move through your day and appropriately respond. What we don’t want is what can happen then is sometimes for all kinds of reasons like the kids start fighting, right. And I get blown out of that window of tolerance. So I can go kind of high or low. And most of us have some understanding of this from like, most people have an understanding of survival responses at this point, like fight flight freeze. Often they don’t know if that kind of flock response. But there’s also a fourth kind of flock like pay attention, because we’re social animals. So when we come out of that window of tolerance, kinda what we’re talking about is hitting one of those survival responses. But from what we know, like, culturally, and in like, kind of popular narrative, we think of like fight, flight, freeze, or flock, as these like big shows, like, I get really aggressive, and I’m attacking somebody, or like, I just can’t move, like, we know the extremes of those. But if we get blown out of our window of tolerance, it’s more that like, a fight response can be like, I start having these kind of incendiary thoughts. In my mind, I’m like, I can’t believe that this person did this, I can’t believe that my partner even said that to me, How dare they, you know, and like, we’re going off, we’re on a tangent. It’s like, a tic tock video, in our mind, what a great description. Or like, that flight response can be more like, I just can’t take this anymore. Like, this is all too much, you know, and like, either one, we can start to like physiological things start happening, you’re gonna know, our heart rate starts to go up, our breathing gets a little bit shallower, it moves up into our chest, and it will often increase. Our body starts pumping different, like hormones to prepare us to be able to respond quickly to stimulus. The parts of our brain that are like working for organization planning, and like connection relationships, aren’t as online anymore. And I’m, I’ll be like putting the caveat, I’m not a neuroscientist. So this is not B, if you are awesome, you can probably explain this much, right. And then that’s not where we’re at. But it’s not what you need to know right now. So that is happening. And then because this cascade of things is happening in us, and we often start without being aware of it, start acting and behaving in our environment, like we know, we’re not okay, obviously, but we don’t realize like that, hey, this is all going on inside of me, we start reacting to control the environment, rather than responding to what’s in us paying attention to it, and then responding to the environment, you know. Yeah, and then often that, like freeze response, some people will go there and like, it will be like, just the, when you can’t really think clearly. And sometimes that will have, there’s two different layers to a freeze response, a freeze response can be like, almost when, like, the gas and the brakes are on in the car, and the same time, you know, so there’s a lot of energy that’s below the surface. But, like, I’m very kind of still, like, my movements are more guarded, I might not be able to, like respond and like have as much nonverbal of what’s going on inside of me. But inside of me, it feels like, you know, a lot of often, like, they were like, socialized within gender to have different responses to emotion. So I see, like, a lot of dads may have that response, because they think they have to be strong, you know, and, like, not add to the chaos. And so they’ll try to get like really still, you know, and like, inside, it’s like, you know, and then other people will think that they’re angry or that they don’t care when really, they care a whole lot. There’s a lot going on inside of here. And so then from any of these places, like we’re not building relationships and having constructive problem solving, we’re often having problem solving, that we try to stop the thing right now that’s happening to make this uncomfortable, rather than, like thinking about okay, what is is actually going on right now? And like, what is going to help long term? What’s my intention here? Like? What do I need to do? What am I trying to keep in the forefront of my mind? What does my kid need? You know? Like, what are they really asking for here? What’s really going on for them? You know, because as a parent, you kind of have these like, dual things you’re trying to do in that moment, your nervous system is trying to function for you. But in many ways, like what’s happening in that parent kid relationship, or parent, like adult kid relationship is that your nervous system is also teaching your kids nervous system how to respond. And then doesn’t know how to do it, you know, and so then you’re having like, your nervous system is doing the work sometimes have like two human beings. And yeah, that’s why it’s hard. It is. Okay, and normal, that it’s hard, you know, and that’s why you also don’t need to be calm. Because if you’re also like, trying to shove your emotions down, we’re trying to be calm all the time and not owning that you’re not, then it’s really hard for your kid to learn. Oh, wait, like, this is what’s going on inside of me. So if I’m letting a lot, go ahead,

Brenda 16:25
yeah, no, I just had a question about that. If if we do say, Okay, I just cannot be calm right now, this is just something that has me, well, outside of I like your zone, you know, maybe I’m way up here. What can we do? What’s a healthy or productive way, sort of to express that so that we’re not inappropriate, or kind of making the situation worse, because I know, just from experience that it can, the more I would get elevated with my son, when he was struggling, then the more he would get elevated. And so I just wonder if you have ideas on? How can we, you know, feel okay to not always have to be calm and sort of, like you said, like, you know, we’re just sort of, like, gritting our teeth and, and putting on an external, front. How do we do that? Right.

Lindsay 17:23
I mean, I think there’s layers to it. So some of it is like getting into the practice to knowing what’s even going on with me, which will kind of dive into the mindfulness stuff. And then some of that’s like, some tools you can use that I think are really helpful are really good. I feel statement, like therapists don’t ask you to talk about your feelings. Just, I mean, I can speak for myself, especially like, I actually have a hard time with feelings, which is hilarious, because I’m a therapist, but I’m a much more like, doer person, you know, that’s my comfort zone. I’m like, let’s go, what’s the plan? And we’re gonna get through it. But like, we don’t ask that, because it’s the most important thing we ask, because it’s one of the most often overlooked things that we are reacting to. And we don’t know the full story of what we’re reacting to, and why. And so we’re trying to fix a problem, you know, in air quotes, without really understanding what is even going on in the situation. So that’s why we ask a lot, like, what are you feeling what’s going on here? You know, and so, I think it’s in that moment, being able to ask yourself, and at first, like, it’s doing some things like, starting with, like, very simple ownership, like, instead of starting with the other person, and like, you’re doing this, you have to stop, like, you’ve got to start with, like, grounding back into like, oh, like, me, like, all I have control over is this. And it can look as simple as laughing at yourself and taking a second and being like, I can’t even think straight right now. I need to take a breath, like and saying what you are going to do. And like, it may be that your kid is like screaming at you in this moment, like you are having a normal human response to somebody else in like pain or suffering, you know? And so, it can be something as simple like starting with just owning what’s going on for me, and what am I going to do? starts to get your nervous system a little bit more calm down, because what we can do in those situations that we start by trying to calm us down by controlling the other person, you know, and so, we’ll say like, you have to calm down right now. It’s like, if I told you that right now, you’d be like, what is the least helpful thing anybody’s? Or will say things like, you know, are you Okay, which is a very understandable caring question. But like sometimes when we ask that question, it’s like, the person’s crying. And they’re like, No, and I feel even less, okay right now because like, you don’t realize this isn’t okay. So, it, they’re like one of our therapists, Charles talks about, there’s like five guarantees, if you try to control another person, you know, you are guaranteed to feel hopeless, helpless, powerless, frustrated and depressed. Because it’s a good list. And I say that, because those are good to use, too. If you’re noticing yourself amped up, you’re responding to your kid, and you’re just getting more and more frustrated. That’s your cue to stop and get back into like your control and window of tolerance. And like, take a breath. And ask yourself, even internally some curious questions and realize, you do not have to respond right now. Unless there is an immediate safety situation, which I know some of you do have to like face in your life. And in that case, even taking that breath and then saying, Hey, where’s my phone, because I need to call some help. Whether that’s like another family member, or the police, or an ambulance, like, you know, but like, taking that big breath and trying to breathe into like your belly like fully extending that, and out. And knowing that, if you can just pause to do that to get your senses back online. It takes a moment, and you are going to act then and say, Okay, where’s my phone? I need help. Or if it’s not an immediate safety situation, and that might be one of the first curious questions you ask yourself is are we okay? Right now, you know, is anybody physical health in immediate danger? And starting to get because that’s what those stress responses are doing. It feels like I am in immediate danger. I am not going to be okay. In a very real, like, visceral survival sense, because this person I’ve connected to, is very not okay. Or there’s something happening in the bot environment that some part of my emotion and nervous system has learned is a survival threat. And by the way, because we’re social animals, social things feel that way too. Right to be ostracized from the pack of the human being, is very threatening. And so it’s to notice and start to just ratchet down from there, like, okay, breathe. Am I physically safe right now? Are you physically safe? No. Okay. And then from there, like, whoa, like, what is going on in me? And you might say out loud, like, I’m going to take some breaths right now real quick, and just assess what’s going on. Okay, like I, I hear like, and you start, instead of having to respond to the situation and change something immediately, trying to kind of assess mode first, what am I reacting to? What are you reacting to? And use that different part of your mind.

Brenda 23:32
It’s really powerful. I think when you can do that, because not only does it give you a little bit of control, but it like you said earlier models for whoever else you’re interacting with that this is an okay way to kind of navigate through this moment. And I know that this is kind of what we’re talking about is mindfulness. I think that can be a really misunderstood term, because people might think of like a monk in the mountains in, you know, the Himalayas or something. What is, I guess I would ask, first of all, is this overall kind of mindfulness that we’re talking about? And then what is your definition of that? And in sort of, maybe we can launch into that a little bit?

Lindsay 24:19
Yeah, I mean, this is kind of mindfulness that we’re talking about right to be able to. So there are a lot of definitions of mindfulness out there. And there’s mindfulness as kind of a trait or like, skill, right? And then there’s mindfulness practice. And we conflate those two and like, meditation is a type of mindfulness practice. So just so we know that but mindfulness, kind of one of the people who talks a lot about mindfulness is Jon Kabat-Zinn so you can look up lots of things to him online and one like really easy, quick face to Definition he gives is paying attention on purpose, to the present moment without judgment. And, right and so like, we all kind of understand like the mindfulness like being present paying attention part. What we kind of miss is that like, in purpose on purpose, like that takes effort for us, as people are, our brains are hardwired to, to kind of continually try to solve the past, or jump to the future and plan and predict for that. And this is not bad, always, it’s bad. If you can’t like, notice, it’s happening, because then it’s hard to be in control right here and right now. Yeah. And then, without judgment, is one of the hardest parts for us. Because the way we work is like, if you are emotions, kind of, as we have an experience, one of the first things that we do is label it good or bad, you know, whether that’s an internal or external experience, and that’s a judgment. And that’s not in and of itself, negative, you know, like, it is normal, like, if we didn’t notice, like, either, like the pain or pleasure we experienced in different activities, we wouldn’t be motivated to pursue accomplishments and goals or grow. And we also wouldn’t learn socially and like change in relationship, you know, it’d be hard to like coexist with other people. We’re talking about more like, the lack of curiosity and compassion, in that non judgement, sometimes, that we start to label things like, I am angry right now, you know, or I feel really sad. And we’ll judge those as sad, or certain, like emotions, for thought, like they have like, sometimes, as parents, you will not like your kids very much. And that might be moments. And it’s also like you and your kid might be very different human beings that don’t have a lot of the same interests, even if something hard isn’t going on, you know. And I will see parents judging themselves a lot for that, or having those thoughts, and then they react out of them, or react out of trying to suppress them, and kind of end up creating problems. So that’s what kind of mindfulness is, and it’s one of the most helpful things you can do for yourself. And your kid is to develop some kind of mindfulness practice, if you do nothing else, as a parent, I would say to do that, because Brenda and I were talking about this a little bit before, by the time you get to residential treatment, you my kind of bias is that like, nobody doesn’t have trauma at this point. Because, like, you’re getting to me like this is a rupture in your family system, right? Like your kid has has to be away from your home. You know, that’s really hard. And usually, like you’re getting to me, because like you have had multiple stressors that all day every day, for a consistent amount of time. And so your nervous system is wound up. And you’ve had to try to integrate in a way that other people might not have that like, all of the things that human beings can do and feel, right. And that like at any moment, things can go sideways on you. And that’s hard. And so if you can start to bring your nervous system back to baseline and build your ability to tolerate and respond to stressful situations, in a more healthy way, then you will help your kid do that. And you will also be healthier. And there’s lots of ways you can do that. I was going to talk through a couple of quick like, you know, things you can do. And then also I’ll put a plug on mindfulness based stress reduction is group therapeutic intervention. It usually runs eight weeks, and they’re really cheap courses online that you can find that can teach you some of these things. And it’ll usually usually is about eight weeks and like kind of two hour sessions. So you’d have to figure out where to fit that in but they’re pre recorded videos for some of them so that you can fit them into your day like wants two hours a week and then practice the skills 10 minutes a day after that. And there’s a lot of like evidence in that increasing like some of them factors that contribute to well being and also decreasing. Some of the things like our levels of stress, depression, that kind of thing.

Brenda 30:09
I love that, I think that that’s a great, it’s a great thing to know. And we’ll put some links in the notes so that people can find that because a lot of times you do feel really helpless, and you feel like, I can’t access some of you know, some of the treatments that are available for families and for young people are amazing, like wilderness therapy, obviously. But there’s also others that are just not accessible sometimes. So I think what’s great about what you’re saying is, these are all things that we can learn and incorporate into our lives as parents that don’t cost a fortune. They’re just they cost our time and our energy to invest to learn them. But it’s so good just to hear something, because I think we often just immediately go to, I have to have this, you know, treatment program, or I have to do this amazing thing, and it cost $25,000. And sometimes that’s just not realistic. So these are really great tips. And I’d love to hear some of your thoughts on what we can kind of do in the moment. Because it can be really powerful. And I think that that’s an empowered parent can be a really, really influential parent as well.

Lindsay 31:22
Yes, yes. Yes. Very much. Yeah.

Brenda 31:25
Yeah. So what are a couple of the things that we can do if we’re, if we’re in that moment, and we’re really trying to be more aware and being a little bit more on purpose with our, with our thoughts and our emotions?

Lindsay 31:39
Yeah. So one quick practice that you can do. And I actually teach these to a lot of clients as well. So your kid may be learning these is a simple mindfulness practice called 54321. And it’s basically tuning into your senses really quickly. And what is very helpful about it is that it helps the calm your nervous system and survival response because it starts to tell your brain, okay, I’m tracking everything that’s going on. Okay, we’re okay. You know, and it does some of that safety thing. So if you notice your T cells getting escalated, like the what you do is kind of breathe out. And then Name five things that you can see. And it’s better if you kind of look up and around. Because that outward gaze, I think another podcast, talks about this helps calm our nervous system, too, and switches where we’re functioning from. So if you can look up and out and name the first five things you see, like, doesn’t matter. Like for me, you know, I see my road bike. I see the snow outside. I see my cat on the couch. I see the red blanket in front of my woodstove, you know, and I see the yellow bag of dogs. And then four things you hear so I can hear the fans running. I can hear the slight buzz from the lights. I can hear my own breath. I hear it rustling as I move back and forth. You know, and if it’s in an escalated situation, one of those things might be I hear my heart pounding. You know, like, I hear my kid yelling. That’s okay. Like really just, it’s still like important just to notice, like, what are those firsts sounds like grab my mind. And then you go into the other senses. So you can name like three things like that You smell so I could smell the eggs I could for breakfast actually. I can smell like the laundry detergent on my sweater. And I can smell that kind of cold in the air because it’s winter right now. And then two things that you feel on your skin. So I can feel like my sweater on my arm. And I can feel my shoes on my feet. And then one thing you can taste like kind of face to face because I brush my teeth right. And so going through that simple like five senses. Really like Don’t get yourself too intense about the order mattering. It will be kind of intuitive, mostly like sound and sight are the top two. Those are the easiest for us to notice the ones we pay the most attention to. As long as you do the other one. Doesn’t matter which one you do for three, two and one. It’s just the act of noticing everything that’s going on will slow your nervous system a little bit so that you can think a little bit more clear Really, and respond more from who you want to be, rather than somebody who’s trying to make everything stop right now.

Brenda 35:09
That’s a really powerful, I think that’s, it’s very grounding it like as you were talking through those things, it just felt like if things were up here swirling, which they often get to that point where like you said, things are so escalated that you’re not thinking straight, and you’re actually your vision sometimes can be a little bit, you know, disrupted and you’re just feeling that anxiety, the, that’s simple. 54321 just felt like, it would kind of bring you back into, okay, I’m right here. This is what’s happening right now. And, yeah, just give you a little bit more room and presence to say, Okay, now how do I want to be when I respond to this, instead of that just like crazy, you know, crazy mom, or crazy dad, which we often are, because we we just don’t have the control. So I think that’s really, really powerful. What would be your last we need to wrap up, but what would be sort of a last thought or piece of wisdom that you would give to parents who might be really feeling the stress of having, you know, maybe they’re thinking about wilderness. And so things are pretty tense in their home, and they really haven’t been able to, to practice any of these things yet. Any last words of wisdom for, for somebody like that?

Lindsay 36:40
Um, yeah, I mean, I would say in that, too, really. I guess like, first is like, you know, my heart goes out to you. Because if you’re even considering this, like that there is a lot going on in your life, and you’re probably getting so many conflicting messages all the time about what you should be doing or how your kids should be, or all of that like, and it is really difficult to sort through. So I hope that you can like, take a breath, sometimes like, lean on support, because you also need help sorting through this, like, No, one person can do this by themselves. I hope you can find some support, who will help you sort through it and tell instead of telling you the shoulds, I would especially lean into those, the ones that are kind of curious, and also will kind of call you out sometimes do but. And I think knowing that there are especially for mindfulness based resources, there are a lot of things out there that like, even as you’re trying to make this decision, if you can, like their breathing techniques, like the Wim Hof their Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction courses, there’s box breathing, you can just Google free mindfulness based resources. If all you do is do that, so that you can maybe sleep for a few hours that night, then you’re doing something huge for yourself and your kid. And I hope that you can let go of any guilt or tension you feel in taking like 10 minutes to do this for yourself. Because that’s, that’s true self care for you and your kid is you’re including an active practice in your life that is making you healthier, and them healthier. So, yeah,

Brenda 38:49
awesome. Thank you so much. This was so so insightful. I know, you provided some resources that we’ll also link to so that people can find those. And we just appreciate you taking the time out to share with some parents who are probably, you know, in a pretty tough place right now. And we just appreciate BlueFire as well, being a partner with sky’s the limit fund and helping us out and getting some of these families help when they really really need it. And so thank you for that as well.

Lindsay 39:18
Yeah, yeah. You’re welcome. Thanks for asking me to be a part of this and really

Brenda 39:23
hope it’s helpful. Yes, thanks. And thanks for joining us. week again with another brand new speaker. I can’t say who that is right now. But we’ll have somebody amazing on as we always do. So thank you so much for listening.